” Red Tags. is great!!! You can check for more rock drill bits detail at my website….

Red tagging is detrimental to climbing in general in two ways:

1-Putting up red tags slows down the progression of the sport.

2-Not respecting red tags slows down the progression of the sport.

These two points seem to contradict themselves but they don’t really, as a lot of people act with those two beliefs in their minds. They always bolt open project, yet mostly respect red tags.

Point 1 is easy to strengthen by observing how climbing has progressed. Areas with more hard routes for people to try breed more strong climbers. It’s that simple. It is always easier to send your hardest next to your home than on a trip halfway around the world. The best setting to get better in this sport is to have access to lots of routes of all levels when you want. With red tags, the top end gets shaved off and the sport locally progresses at the speed of the people who bolted the projects, which is quite arbitrary and probably not the fastest, since they red tagged their routes to prevent them from being sent as fast as possible in the first place.

Point 2 is equally important. People who bolt routes are rare. How many? 1 in 100 climbers? 1 in 1000? I can count them on my hands for all of Quebec!
Why are they so rare? For a few reasons, one of them was mentionned a few times, hard work, tools, money, etc. This is pretty easy to understand. Anyone who thought they felt new muscles when they started climbing will feel newer muscles still when they start bolting (especially overhangs with £¢!”/$ quartz veins with cheap drill bits).

Another reason mentionned in Joe’s original post that seems to be a bit overlooked by the rest of the thread is vision.
Vision is a very important part of first ascents. It is the product of imagination and the desire to define what’s possible. This is the quality that makes people who put in the time and effort to bolt projects at the top end rare. They have to believe something is possible first and act on it.
Not respecting red tags is detrimental to those people and their work. Bolting is usually a selfish endeavor, even for the altruistic climbers who only bolt open projects. You bolt it because you want to see if it’s possible and because you imagine yourself climbing it. Some are attached to the FA, some aren’t. Getting a bit of slack from the climbing community to try your new project seems only natural and respectful.

These people are a resource for the climbing community. In that case, especially, it seems that even fewer people will bolt routes at Rifle because of administrative issues. That makes them valuable resources. You wouldn’t destroy a beautiful crag by chipping every new route you bolt, well you shouldn’t make the few people who bolt want to quit either. Resource management.

The correct decision here seems to be to respect’s Andy’s tag, even if you disagree with his decision. Yup it might be slower to let him send the project first, but he will stay psyched to bolt other routes after that, and I guess some of them will be open.

Bringing the word “respect” into the argument is the only way anyone can defend the standpoint that red-tagging is legitimate. The whole attitude of red-tagging is pure selfishness; I did all the work so I get to do it first. I put all the bolts in so I should be allowed to use them first. Grow up – learn to share.

Don’t know about this route obviously Joe, but I still have a bit of old school ethic in me that says the guy who bolts the route should get a decent chance to get the FA (If that’s what they want). Obviously it’s all subjective and up to the individuals what they think is or isn’t cool, but if someone is actively trying a route still than I think it’s pretty uncool to whip it from under them. But if it’s been sitting around for more than a year and they arn’t trying the thing it should be opened up and I would have no problem getting on it.

It’s a little different on your lines Dave as unless it is somewhere with a lot of high end traffic there is very little chance of someone getting it first. When you bolt a line where there are a number of other climbers who could send it quickly if you don’t tag it it will be gone the first day after you bolted it before you even got a chance. That’s pretty stink after you have put in a couple days effort and cash equipping it..

Good on you guys for repecting the tag in this case anyway cause I know lots who wouldn’t. Later